Jhn 5:3

hmw3 commented

2020-09-09 19:50:59 +00:00

The text note does not fit the current ULB text.

SusanQuigley commented

2020-09-09 20:31:16 +00:00

Owner

@hmw3 Are you refrering to the footnote in John 5:3?

\v 2 Now in Jerusalem by the sheep gate there is a pool, which in the Aramaic language is called Bethesda, and it has five roofed porches.
\v 3 A large number of people who were sick, blind, lame, or paralyzed were lying there. \f + \ft The best ancient copies do not have the phrase, \fqa waiting for the moving of the water \fqa*. \f*
\v 4 \f + \ft The best ancient copies do not have verse 4, \fqa For an angel of the Lord went down and stirred up the water at certain times and whoever stepped in while the water was stirring was healed from whatever disease he suffered from \fqa*. \f*

@hmw3 Are you refrering to the footnote in John 5:3? \v 2 Now in Jerusalem by the sheep gate there is a pool, which in the Aramaic language is called Bethesda, and it has five roofed porches. \v 3 A large number of people who were sick, blind, lame, or paralyzed were lying there. \f + \ft The best ancient copies do not have the phrase, \fqa waiting for the moving of the water \fqa*. \f* \v 4 \f + \ft The best ancient copies do not have verse 4, \fqa For an angel of the Lord went down and stirred up the water at certain times and whoever stepped in while the water was stirring was healed from whatever disease he suffered from \fqa*. \f*

SusanQuigley added the

Henry

label 2020-09-10 15:18:38 +00:00

hmw3 commented

2020-09-10 16:35:24 +00:00

Author

Um, yeah, 5:3 (blush).

hmw3 changed title from ~~John 5:2~~ to John 5:3

2020-09-10 16:35:34 +00:00

SusanQuigley commented

2020-09-15 14:35:16 +00:00

Owner

I think the text note does fit the current ULB text. The reason "waiting for the moving of the water" is not in the ULB is that it is not in the best ancient copies.

Many of the notes that start with "The best ancient copies" explain why something people might expect is not in the ULB.

I think the text note does fit the current ULB text. The reason "waiting for the moving of the water" is not in the ULB is that it is not in the best ancient copies. Many of the notes that start with "The best ancient copies" explain why something people might expect is not in the ULB.

drewc commented

2020-09-15 16:07:59 +00:00

Owner

The OGNT has it.

SusanQuigley commented

2020-09-15 16:24:12 +00:00

Owner

@drewcurley, are you saying that "waiting for the moving of the water" is in the OGNT? I don't see it there.

https://opengnt.com/index.html?OGNTint&43.5.3

@drewcurley, are you saying that "waiting for the moving of the water" is in the OGNT? I don't see it there. https://opengnt.com/index.html?OGNTint&43.5.3

SusanQuigley added the

Drew

label 2020-09-15 16:24:16 +00:00

drewc commented

2020-09-15 18:01:02 +00:00

Owner

Sorry, typo.

hmw3 commented

2020-09-15 21:27:27 +00:00

Author

My objection was to the wording of the note noting that words that ancient manuscripts don't have words not in the ULB. My first thought was, "Why should they? They're not here."

Consider phrasing the situation positively:

\f + \ft Some ancient copies have the following words after "paralyzed": \fqa ... were lying there, waiting for the moving of the water \fqa. \f
\v 4 \f + \ft Some ancient copies contain verse 4, \fqa For an angel of the Lord went down and stirred up the water at certain times and whoever stepped in while the water was stirring was healed from whatever disease he suffered from \fqa. \f

My objection was to the wording of the note noting that words that ancient manuscripts don't have words not in the ULB. My first thought was, "Why should they? They're not here." Consider phrasing the situation positively: \f + \ft Some ancient copies have the following words after "paralyzed": \fqa ... were lying there, waiting for the moving of the water \fqa. \f \v 4 \f + \ft Some ancient copies contain verse 4, \fqa For an angel of the Lord went down and stirred up the water at certain times and whoever stepped in while the water was stirring was healed from whatever disease he suffered from \fqa. \f

SusanQuigley commented

2020-10-08 20:55:24 +00:00

Owner

It's wordier but certainly clearer. If we do this we should probably check the rest of the footnotes that have "The best ancient copies" and "the best ancient Greek copies". There are 29 altogether.

SusanQuigley changed title from ~~John 5:3~~ to Jhn 5:3

2020-10-08 20:56:02 +00:00

JohnH commented

2020-11-02 15:41:15 +00:00

Owner

If we change the wording from "the best ancient copies do not have" to "some ancient copies have," will that raise the question about why it is not in the ULB?

If we use Henry's suggestion, should we add this at the end of the note: These words are not in the ULB because they are not in the best ancient copies of the Bible.

If we change the wording from "the best ancient copies do not have" to "some ancient copies have," will that raise the question about why it is not in the ULB? If we use Henry's suggestion, should we add this at the end of the note: These words are not in the ULB because they are not in the best ancient copies of the Bible.

drewc commented

2020-11-02 17:43:38 +00:00

Owner

I do not think we should undermine the authority of the ULB. What is lost is worse than what is gained, if that makes sense.