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opened 2020-05-06 17:59:40 +00:00 by JohnH · 2 comments

JohnH commented

2020-05-06 17:59:40 +00:00

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3:14

\v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer to be released to you.
\v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer to be graciously given to you.

Current ULB is the same.

Do we need the word "graciously" here?

SQ. I don't think "graciously" fits here, even though the word is G5483 χαρισθῆναι.

Tom, what would you think of removing "graciously" from Acts 3:14 so it will be like this?

\v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer to be given to you.

They previous translator may have tried to add in the idea of "grace" when it was just 'gift" ... to give.

The ULB of Acts 3:14 now reads:

\v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer to be given to you.

TomW

Checking tN ...
for a murderer to be given to you
This can be stated in active form. Alternate translation: "for Pilate to release a murderer to you" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-activepassive)

applied to tW..

3:14 \v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer to be **released** to you. \v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer to be **graciously** given to you. Current ULB is the same. Do we need the word "graciously" here? ----------- SQ. I don't think "graciously" fits here, even though the word is G5483 χαρισθῆναι. **Tom, what would you think of removing "graciously" from Acts 3:14 so it will be like this?** \v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer **to be given** to you. They previous translator may have tried to add in the idea of "grace" when it was just 'gift" ... to give. _____________________ The ULB of Acts 3:14 now reads: \v 14 You rejected the Holy and Righteous One, and you asked instead for a murderer to be given to you. TomW Checking tN ... for a murderer to be given to you This can be stated in active form. Alternate translation: "for Pilate to release a murderer to you" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-activepassive) applied to tW..

JohnH commented

2020-05-06 18:07:36 +00:00

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4:16

\v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is plain to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it.
\v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is visible to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it.

Current ULB is the same.

The word "visible" seems strange to me in this context. What about "evident," which is also in the header of the "Reveal" tw page?

SQ.
I agree. "evident" would be better. I also think "clear" would be good. ("clearly seen" and "make ... clear" are also on the tW page.)

Tom, could you change "visible" in Acts 4:16 to "evident" or "clear"?

\v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is visible to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it.

The ULB of Act 4:16 now reads:
\v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is evident to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it.

TomW
Will check on tN ....

For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is evident to everyone who lives in Jerusalem

This can be stated in active form. Alternate translation: "For God has done a remarkable sign through them, and everyone who lives in Jerusalem has seen it" or "For everyone who lives in Jerusalem knows that they have done a remarkable sign" (See: rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-activepassive)

4:16 \v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is **plain** to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. \v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is **visible** to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. Current ULB is the same. The word "visible" seems strange to me in this context. What about "evident," which is also in the header of the "Reveal" tw page? ------- SQ. I agree. "evident" would be better. I also think "clear" would be good. ("clearly seen" and "make ... clear" are also on the tW page.) **Tom, could you change "visible" in Acts 4:16 to "evident" or "clear"?** \v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is **visible** to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. ____________________ The ULB of Act 4:16 now reads: \v 16 They said, "What should we do with these men? For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is **evident** to everyone who lives in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. TomW Will check on tN .... # For a remarkable sign has been done through them, and this is evident to everyone who lives in Jerusalem This can be stated in active form. Alternate translation: "For God has done a remarkable sign through them, and everyone who lives in Jerusalem has seen it" or "For everyone who lives in Jerusalem knows that they have done a remarkable sign" (See: [[rc://en/ta/man/jit/figs-activepassive]])

SusanQuigley commented

2020-05-13 20:47:11 +00:00

Owner

Acts 2:24

\v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the pains of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.
\v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the pangs of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.

This is the only occurrence of the word "pang" in the ULB.
ὠδίν 5604 occurs only 3 other times in the NT.

Mat 24:8 But all these things are only the beginning of birth pains.

Mrk 13:8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many places, and famines. These are the beginnings of birth pains.

1Th 5:3 When they say, "Peace and safety," then sudden destruction will come on them. It will be like birth pains in a pregnant woman. They will in no way escape.

If we want to keep the birth pain metaphor in Acts 2;24, I think it would be better to use "birth pains" than "pangs."

\v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the birth pains of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.

But I don't know how prominent Luke intended that to be. Maybe just the extreme pain of death. So if we don't think "birth pains" is needed. then I think that "pains" or "agony/agonies" would good.

\v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.

What do you think about G5604 in Acts 2:24?

JH: I assume it was changed to "pangs" so that it would link to the "labor pains" page without using the word "labor" or "pain." I am fine with "pain," "agony," or "pang." I think the first two are probably easier to understand, but I'm ok with "pang" if it works better for linking to the tw page.

TomW:

ὠδῖνας
ὠδίν, ῖνος, ἡ (1) literally, as the pain that accompanies childbirth birth pang, labor pain (1TH 5.3); (2) metaphorically; (a) of intolerable anguish from calamities preceding the advent of the Messiah, usually plural distress, great sufferings, agonies (MT 24.8); (b) as the final agonies before death pangs, pain, throes (AC 2.24)

"agonies" would be better, than simply, "pain."
"birth pains" are normal in modern versions...
"pangs" are agonizing, or long and terrifying...(as in childbirth).

Suggest:

NO CHANGES YET ON THIS

\v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the agonies of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.

Take a look....

Tom W

Can be pangs, but it is archaic. Pain serves just as well.
This is the only occurrence of pangs in the ULB ... "pains" is better, but agonies, are closer...

From ParaTExt:

MAT 24:8 - πάντα δὲ ταῦτα ἀρχὴ ὠδίνων.

MRK 13:8 - ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ ἔθνος ἐπ᾽ ἔθνος καὶ βασιλεία ἐπὶ βασιλείαν, ἔσονται σεισμοὶ κατὰ τόπους, ἔσονται λιμοί· ἀρχὴ ὠδίνων ταῦτα.

ACT 2:24 - ὃν ὁ θεὸς ἀνέστησεν λύσας τὰς ὠδῖνας τοῦ θανάτου, καθότι οὐκ ἦν δυνατὸν κρατεῖσθαι αὐτὸν ὑπ᾽ αὐτοῦ.

1TH 5:3 - ὅταν λέγωσιν, Εἰρήνη καὶ ἀσφάλεια, τότε αἰφνίδιος αὐτοῖς ἐφίσταται ὄλεθρος ὥσπερ ἡ ὠδὶν τῇ ἐν γαστρὶ ἐχούσῃ, καὶ οὐ μὴ ἐκφύγωσιν.

There-you-go ... TomW

SQ. Tom, I like your suggestion for Acts 2:24.

Henry, on the tW page for laborpains" would you like to remove "pang"?
Would you want "agonies" there or not?

Yes, I think agonies would be better (in view of all he suffered).

The ULB of Acts 2:24 now reads:

\v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the agonies of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.

I have applied this.
Check on tW ----- Small change to the tW ... to align with the language, the agonies of death...
Thanks.

Tom W

Acts 2:24 \v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the **pains** of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it. \v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the **pangs** of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it. This is the only occurrence of the word "pang" in the ULB. ὠδίν 5604 occurs only 3 other times in the NT. Mat 24:8 But all these things are only the beginning of **birth pains.** Mrk 13:8 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many places, and famines. These are the beginnings of **birth pains.** 1Th 5:3 When they say, "Peace and safety," then sudden destruction will come on them. It will be like **birth pains** in a pregnant woman. They will in no way escape. If we want to keep the birth pain metaphor in Acts 2;24, I think it would be better to use "birth pains" than "pangs." \v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the **birth pains** of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it. But I don't know how prominent Luke intended that to be. Maybe just the extreme pain of death. So if we don't think "birth pains" is needed. then I think that "pains" or "agony/agonies" would good. \v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the **agony** of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it. **What do you think about G5604 in Acts 2:24?** _______________________ JH: I assume it was changed to "pangs" so that it would link to the "labor pains" page without using the word "labor" or "pain." I am fine with "pain," "agony," or "pang." I think the first two are probably easier to understand, but I'm ok with "pang" if it works better for linking to the tw page. ____________________________________ TomW: ὠδῖνας ὠδίν, ῖνος, ἡ (1) literally, as the pain that accompanies childbirth birth pang, labor pain (1TH 5.3); (2) metaphorically; (a) of intolerable anguish from calamities preceding the advent of the Messiah, usually plural distress, great sufferings, agonies (MT 24.8); (b) as the final agonies before death pangs, pain, throes (AC 2.24) "agonies" would be better, than simply, "pain." "birth pains" are normal in modern versions... "pangs" are agonizing, or long and terrifying...(as in childbirth). **Suggest:** NO CHANGES YET ON THIS **\v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the agonies of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.** Take a look.... Tom W Can be pangs, but it is archaic. Pain serves just as well. This is the only occurrence of **pangs** in the ULB ... "pains" is better, but agonies, are closer... From ParaTExt: MAT 24:8 - πάντα δὲ ταῦτα ἀρχὴ **ὠδίνων**. MRK 13:8 - ἐγερθήσεται γὰρ ἔθνος ἐπ᾽ ἔθνος καὶ βασιλεία ἐπὶ βασιλείαν, ἔσονται σεισμοὶ κατὰ τόπους, ἔσονται λιμοί· ἀρχὴ **ὠδίνων** ταῦτα. ACT 2:24 - ὃν ὁ θεὸς ἀνέστησεν λύσας τὰς **ὠδῖνας** τοῦ θανάτου, καθότι οὐκ ἦν δυνατὸν κρατεῖσθαι αὐτὸν ὑπ᾽ αὐτοῦ. 1TH 5:3 - ὅταν λέγωσιν, Εἰρήνη καὶ ἀσφάλεια, τότε αἰφνίδιος αὐτοῖς ἐφίσταται ὄλεθρος ὥσπερ ἡ **ὠδὶν** τῇ ἐν γαστρὶ ἐχούσῃ, καὶ οὐ μὴ ἐκφύγωσιν. There-you-go ... TomW _____________________________ SQ. **Tom, I like your suggestion for Acts 2:24.** **Henry, on the tW page for laborpains" would you like to remove "pang"? Would you want "agonies" there or not?** __________________ Yes, I think agonies would be better (in view of all he suffered). The ULB of Acts 2:24 now reads: \v 24 But God raised him up, freeing him from the agonies of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it. I have applied this. Check on tW ----- Small change to the tW ... to align with the language, the agonies of death... Thanks. Tom W ________________________