Ezr 7:12 #1081

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opened 2022-03-10 18:54:56 +00:00 by SusanQuigley · 5 comments

SusanQuigley commented

2022-03-10 18:54:56 +00:00

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Ezra 7:12 ULB ? "the scribe, the scribe…
redundant?

From Roger W. for ULB audio team

Ezra 7:12 ULB ? "the scribe, the scribe… redundant? From Roger W. for ULB audio team

SusanQuigley commented

2022-03-10 18:57:43 +00:00

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7:12 looks fine.
\v 12 "The King of kings Artaxerxes, to the priest Ezra, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven:

The question is about 7:11.
\v 11 This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, the scribe of the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and of his statutes for Israel.

7:12 looks fine. \v 12 "The King of kings Artaxerxes, to the priest Ezra, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven: The question is about 7:11. \v 11 This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to **Ezra the priest, the scribe, the scribe** of the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and of his statutes for Israel.

SusanQuigley commented

2022-03-10 20:18:41 +00:00

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This is not an error. In Hebrew Ezra the priest is described as "the scribe" and "the scribe of the words of the commandments of Yahweh".

Some versions translate the second use of סֹפֵ֞ר as "learned" or "an expert".

If we leave it as is, I think it would be good to have a TN about it.

This is not an error. In Hebrew Ezra the priest is described as "the scribe" and "the scribe of the words of the commandments of Yahweh". Some versions translate the second use of סֹפֵ֞ר as "learned" or "an expert". If we leave it as is, I think it would be good to have a TN about it.

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label 2022-03-10 20:18:50 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-03-10 21:57:18 +00:00

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The second "scribe" does not have an article in the Hebrew, so it seems we should at least change to "the scribe, a scribe of the words..."

To me it feels like there should be a more definite pause between the two "scribes" or possibly even a "that is"

The scribe--a scribe of the words...

the scribe, that is, a scribe of the words...

KJV uses the word "even" here and other places where I always feel it would be better translated as "that is"

It seems the point is to explain and emphasize the importance of what it means for Ezra to be "the scribe."

With that said, I'm fine with changing to "an expert" or "a man learned."

The second "scribe" does not have an article in the Hebrew, so it seems we should at least change to "the scribe, a scribe of the words..." To me it feels like there should be a more definite pause between the two "scribes" or possibly even a "that is" The scribe--a scribe of the words... the scribe, that is, a scribe of the words... KJV uses the word "even" here and other places where I always feel it would be better translated as "that is" It seems the point is to explain and emphasize the importance of what it means for Ezra to be "the scribe." With that said, I'm fine with changing to "an expert" or "a man learned."

SusanQuigley commented

2022-03-11 01:25:15 +00:00

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I'm ok with either of these. If we use "an expert" than think we need to use "in" with the two things he was an expert in.

\v 11 This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, that is, a scribe of the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and of his statutes for Israel.

\v 11 This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, an expert in the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and in his statutes for Israel.

I don't expect translators to know the adjective "learned".

It would be nice to get rid of that comma after the phrase "of/in the words of the commandments of Yahweh"

I'm ok with either of these. If we use "an expert" than think we need to use "in" with the two things he was an expert in. \v 11 This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, **that is, a scribe** of the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and of his statutes for Israel. \v 11 This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, **an expert in** the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and **in** his statutes for Israel. I don't expect translators to know the adjective "learned". It would be nice to get rid of that comma after the phrase "of/in the words of the commandments of Yahweh"

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John

label 2022-03-11 01:25:27 +00:00

JohnH commented

2022-03-11 15:38:33 +00:00

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22-01 now reads

This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, an expert in the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and in his statutes for Israel.

22-01 now reads This was the copy of the letter that King Artaxerxes gave to Ezra the priest, the scribe, an expert in the words of the commandments of Yahweh, and in his statutes for Israel.